tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post5091286366014996337..comments2024-02-25T22:00:21.788-06:00Comments on theearstohear: Total Depravity Requires Immediate Holy Spirit RegenerationUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-44598294298301167612019-01-13T09:01:20.430-06:002019-01-13T09:01:20.430-06:00HB: TETH states... "Because "the scriptu...HB: TETH states... "Because "the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35) it follows that none of these acts is involved in the impartation of eternal life to an unregenerate man, else the flesh would be, in some sense, profitable unto man's salvation."<br /><br />TETH: That is precisely correct. The Christ’s insistence upon the abject unprofitability of the flesh where eternal life is concerned eliminates all aspects of instrumentality of the fallen creature and his tainted flesh from having any participatory involvement with the impartation of eternal life. <br /><br />HB: But Jesus states..."And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)<br /><br />TETH: We totally affirm that statement. All of God’s elect family “know” God and since Jesus is God, they “know” Jesus as well, even as a child “knows” its own mother. But they do not ALL “know” him in an explicit NT gospel sense as you seem to imply from the term “know.” This is a matter of absolute certainty based on many scriptural examples (Job, Job 9:2; Rachael’s Children, Jeremiah 31:15-17, Matthew 2:16-18). These people “know” God in a relational sense, but they did not hear or understand NT gospel mechanics during their natural lives. <br /><br />HB: Eternal life before and without a relationship with God and His Christ is non-sensical.<br /><br />TETH: You should be more careful about your accusations. We have NEVER insisted that some men have eternal life “without a relationship with God and His Christ.” That is not our belief at all. ALL of God’s elect have a relationship with God that is first by covenant, and then vitally by spiritual birth. Children are BORN of their parents into a relationship, though they lack any intellectual understanding of the mechanics whereby they were generated or much at all in the way of particulars regarding their parents. Spiritual birth is very much of the same sort. A child’s relationship to the parents is ever and always beholden to the actions of the parents, not to their own actions. This is true both in the natural world as well as in the spiritual. It is also utterly irrefutable. That relationship, established by the action of the parents, is not in any sense beholden to any actions of the child in order to be in effect. Spiritual life works this way as well. <br /><br />TETH: So, your portrayal of our beliefs are in error, and I’m thankful for the opportunity to demonstrate that the child/parent relationship is NEVER a function of the child’s knowledge or understanding of such. What we believe is that all of the elect are born again at some point between conception and death (John 3:3) s a result of a covenant promise (Galatians 4:6) by an immediate divine fiat of God himself (John 5:25). That said, not all of these elect are blessed to encounter or embrace the knowledge of explicit NT gospel mechanics during their natural lives and the OT alone is an enormous monument to this evident, though oft overlooked, fact. <br /><br />May God bless our studies and understanding of his word,<br />TETH theearstohearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331127432012852113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-68809548536597344742019-01-12T12:33:04.475-06:002019-01-12T12:33:04.475-06:00Almost excellent.
TETH states...
"Because &qu...Almost excellent.<br />TETH states...<br />"Because "the scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35) it follows that none of these acts is involved in the impartation of eternal life to an unregenerate man, else the flesh would be, in some sense, profitable unto man's salvation."<br /><br />But Jesus states...<br />"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."(John 17:3)<br /><br />Eternal life before and without a relationship with God and His Christ is non-sensical.Henry Barricknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-28399784356230625212014-06-03T22:46:15.106-05:002014-06-03T22:46:15.106-05:00“Please correct my understanding of your position....“Please correct my understanding of your position. I believe i hear you saying individuals are regenerated in a "vacuum" by the direct supernatural imparting of life apart from any ordained means “ (DH)<br /> <br />I don’t believe that anyone is regenerated in a spiritual vacuum. I believe that the domain of regeneration is defined in scripture by the Lord Jesus Christ as “the wind bloweth where it listeth.” (John 3:8) In this statement Jesus is making the case that God is utterly free to impart his Spirit to whomever he wills without regard to any limitations whatsoever. Indeed, would God be sovereign in salvation is such limitations existed? "Behold the Lord's hand is not shortened that it cannot save." (Isaiah 59:1) Given the omnipresence of God, I would assert that there is therefore no such thing in our world as a spiritual vacuum, and thus all regeneration occurs within the domain of God’s presence. <br /> <br />It is true that we believe this regenerating act is “direct” or without mediation (via means such as gospel preaching, sacraments, baptism, etc.). In other words, no gospel preaching, no bible, no church, etc. is required for God to regenerate one of his chosen people. The testimony of scripture is absolutely filled with OT examples of such that are too numerous to recount (Seth, Enoch, Job, etc.).<br /> <br />“To which faith may or may not come?” (DH)<br /> <br />Faith is a fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22) and thus all of God’s regenerate people have the God given capacity of faith, just as the OT saints did. Indeed all such God-given faith is, in fact, faith in Christ. But we do not believe that all of God’s people in this world encounter the gospel of Jesus Christ in their lifetimes such that they have the opportunity to exercise evangelical faith and experience the joy and comfort that attends a proper understanding of precisely how Jesus saved his people from their sins (Matt 1:21). Job said, “I know it is so of a truth but HOW should man be just with God?” (Job 9:2) Had he known the explicit NT gospel (I Corinthians 15:3-4) he would have known the answer to that question.theearstohearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331127432012852113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-83905148356918856172014-06-03T22:40:15.672-05:002014-06-03T22:40:15.672-05:00“I believe you confuse the preaching of the gospel...“I believe you confuse the preaching of the gospel as a synergistic offer of salvation and the efficacious proclamation of the gospel that carries the power to create faith.” (DH)<br /><br />In all candor, I don’t think we confuse these two issues. We just flatly deny that the preaching of the gospel carries “the power to create faith” as you put it. We believe that the gospel reveals the righteousness of God from faith to faith (Romans 1:17). In other words, one must already have the capacity of faith born of regeneration, the ears to hear if you will, before they can ever receive gospel truth. The Lord Jesus Christ taught this precept saying, “He who is of God heareth God’s words.” (John 8:47) We believe that in that statement, the Lord is reinforcing his teaching that “except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) He is teaching that God’s immediate, sovereign, life-giving act of regeneration must precede the exercise of any spiritual capacity on the part of man, such as faith. <br /><br />“The first is willworship heresy.” (DH)<br /> <br />We regard all forms of well-meant-offerism as perversions of the gospel – so I doubt there’s any significant dispute between us in that respect.<br /><br />“To believe that the gospel is to be preached as The instrument by which God brings faith does not necessitate believing in synergism.” (DH)<br /><br />Our objection is not based on synergism, but rather based on the natural (unregenerate) man’s inability to receive gospel truth. (I Corinthians 2:14) I submit that Paul's testimony is completely irrelevant if the gospel is, in fact, the very instrumentality whereby that inability is overcome. To assert that the gospel has this power would be to assert that “except a man see the kingdom of God via a gospel presentation, he cannot be born again”, and that “He who is NOT of God, heareth God’s words and this creates faith in him.”<br /> <br />“The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, meaning the message carries with it the power to give life/faith to dead sinners.” (DH)<br /><br />We do not believe that the bible’s testimony that the gospel is “the power of God unto salvation” means that the message of the gospel is instrumental in the regeneration of God’s people. We do not believe that the gospel is a life-giving force, but a revelation to God’s people who have the ears to hear gospel truth (i.e., the regenerate). It is “the power of God unto salvation” in that it testifies of God’s power in accomplishing the eternal salvation of His chosen people. <br /><br />“The hearer is either intended to believe or not. All according to election” (DH)<br /> <br />We probably don’t disagree there, but we believe that apart from God’s preceding act of regeneration, belief of the gospel message is utterly impossible. At the end of the day, we stand firm on the notion that regeneration precedes faith in time, because man’s abject depravity makes it such that gospel reception via the capacity of faith is impossible until after regeneration has occurred and thus by the time anyone ever has the faith to receive the gospel, they have already passed from death unto life and thus, whatever might be said of their gospel reception, it was too late to the party to ever account for their vital salvation in time. <br /> <br />“To some we are life unto life and to others death unto death.” (DH)<br /> <br />Correct. Some hear it and believe it because they are already alive and have the ears to hear. Others lack this capacity.theearstohearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331127432012852113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-88392253654484523002014-06-03T16:37:06.092-05:002014-06-03T16:37:06.092-05:00TETH,
Please correct my understanding of your pos...TETH,<br /><br />Please correct my understanding of your position. I believe i hear you saying individuals are regenerated in a "vacuum" by the direct supernatural imparting of life apart from any ordained means. To which faith may or may not come?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03649717516093638632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-44971529709221320502014-06-03T16:22:02.588-05:002014-06-03T16:22:02.588-05:00I believe you confuse the preaching of the gospel ...I believe you confuse the preaching of the gospel as a synergistic offer of salvation and the efficacious proclamation of the gospel that carries the power to create faith.<br /><br />The first is willworship heresy.<br /><br />To believe that the gospel is to be preached as The instrument by which God brings faith does not necessitate believing in synergism. The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, meaning the message carries with it the power to give life/faith to dead sinners. The hearer is either intended to believe or not. All according to election. <br /><br />To some we are life unto life and to others death unto death. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03649717516093638632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-44481129622366142842014-03-16T21:23:02.645-05:002014-03-16T21:23:02.645-05:00ExcellentExcellentAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14942552802639032213noreply@blogger.com