tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post942138934804911304..comments2024-03-29T08:23:32.035-05:00Comments on theearstohear: Steve Lawson - The Narrow Way to Life - Biblically ExaminedUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-75331937151151224102015-01-02T13:35:11.624-06:002015-01-02T13:35:11.624-06:00I had to split my answer to your questions into tw...I had to split my answer to your questions into two parts. You may need to return to the blog to see each of them. <br /> <br />http://theearstohear.blogspot.com/2014/08/steve-lawson-narrow-way-to-life.html?showComment=1420227228793#c8003196165510519741<br /> <br />Regards,<br />teth theearstohearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331127432012852113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-80031961655105197412015-01-02T13:33:48.793-06:002015-01-02T13:33:48.793-06:00ANSWER 102
ANONYMOUS: you wrote ": I do not...ANSWER 102<br /><br />ANONYMOUS: you wrote ": I do not believe that the gospel "contains a command" as you put it." That is fair enough if you do not believe that, but the scripture I provided (not me or you) clearly states that The gospel does need to be obeyed.<br /> <br />TETH: I do not deny that gospel truth has logical ramifications, namely that we should serve God as our reasonable service (Romans 12:1), but this does not prove that the gospel message is a command, but rather that this truth as unavoidable ramifications, one of which is that we should live in accordance with it through obedience. So again, I am making the distinction between the GOSPEL PROPER, which is a proclamation of what God has done, and GOSPEL RAMIFICATIONS, which are NOT the gospel pe se, but rather the unavoidable logical consequences of gospel truth composed of what those who believe the gospel should do. It is the distinction between God’s monergistic accomplishment and the "THEREFORE" which attends that truth – namely man’s proper response of synergistic discipleship. <br /><br />ANONYMOUS: Just to clarify I do not hold to Lordship Salvation, or the false notion that to "obey" The gospel is a work that needs to be done by any man.<br /> <br />TETH: I’m unclear on exactly what you mean. You first say that “the gospel does need to be obeyed” and then state that you “do not hold to… the false notion that to ‘obey’ the gospel is a work that needs to be done by any man.” I have thoughts on what you might mean by that but it’s probably better to ask you to clarify rather than project my interpretation upon you.<br /><br />TETH: That said, I believe that “obeying the gospel” (by which I mean living in a manner that is logically consistent with the truth proclaimed in the gospel) is most certainly something that “needs to be done by man” – not in order to obtain eternal life, but rather to walk in discipleship and in so doing to save oneself from this untoward generation in this lifetime (Acts 2:40). It is for this reason that Primitive Baptists maintain a clear distinction between eternal salvation which is a gospel accomplishment of the Lord Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1:3, 9:12, 10:14, Romans 5:19), and time salvation to which we are admonished based on the truth of the gospel (Acts 2:40, John 14:15). <br /><br />ANONYMOUS: Please can you tackle this passage in your next answer.<br /> <br />TETH: I’ve given you my take on what is meant by “obeying the gospel.” To summarize: obedience does not require an explicit command as a matter of necessity given the existence of logical consequence. One final example - there is a difference between:<br /><br />GOOD NEWS PROCLAMATION: I’m going into labor!<br />GOOD NEWS COMMAND: Take me to the hospital!<br /> <br />TETH: A husband who responds to the above PROCLAMATION by taking his wife to the hospital does not, in so doing, magically transform that proclamation into a command, but rather proves that he understands that proclamation to have unavoidable logical ramifications. By acting in accordance with that reality, he can be said to be obedient to the good news that his wife is in labor. In contrast, one who hears that good news proclamation and fails to recognize that “take me to the hospital” follows from it as a matter of logical consequence proves that he lacks understanding with respect to the role of that gospel truth on behavior. <br /><br />TETH: Thanks again for your thoughtful and probing questions and for your desire to seek the Lord through a proper understanding of his word. I encourage you in that pursuit as it will no doubt prove profitable in your life, irrespective of whether you and I ever agree on the nature of the gospel message. <br /> <br />May God bless our studies and understanding of his word,<br />teth<br />theearstohearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331127432012852113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-61307401932750987682015-01-02T13:30:50.083-06:002015-01-02T13:30:50.083-06:00ANSWER 101
ANONYMOUS: I mentioned the passage 1 ...ANSWER 101<br /> <br />ANONYMOUS: I mentioned the passage 1 Peter 4:17 for a reason and do not feel that you engaged with it, or even tried to give an explanation as to why Peter mentions the word "obey" in relation to the Gospel. <br /> <br />TETH: The bible teaches that the gospel is a proclamation of the finished work of Jesus Christ on behalf of his people (I Corinthians 15:3-4). The matter of our “obedience to the gospel” is not the gospel, per se, but rather the logical consequence of gospel truth which Paul refers to as our “reasonable service.” (Romans 12:1). Perhaps an example might prove useful in demonstrating the distinction I am making between gospel truth and gospel ramifications. <br /> <br />TETH: I might proclaim the good news that “gravity holds us to the earth so that we don’t fly off into space.” In so doing this “gospel” is proclaiming a natural truth. This truth is in effect irrespective of one’s attitude regarding that truth because it is the objective reality that “gravity exists” and “gravity saves us from drifting into space to our destruction.” This truth of gravity’s existence, however, brings with it some unavoidable consequences as a matter of logical necessity. These logical consequences are NOT the “gospel of gravity” per se, but rather, are the precepts that unavoidably arise from this “gospel truth.” In other words, “because gravity is true, you should therefore walk in accordance wit this precept as a matter of logical consequence.” Such a walk might be well described as “obedience to the gospel of gravity” but this does not somehow establish that the gospel of gravity is a command, but rather that receipt of the truth of gravity brings with it unavoidable ramifications regarding how we should conduct ourselves with respect to that truth. <br /> <br />TETH: That said, I do not believe that I Peter 4:17 poses any difficulty for my position. I do not deny that gospel truth brings with it the unavoidable logical ramification that we should walk in obedient discipleship as our reasonable service (Romans 12:1, John 14:15). Those who do so can be said to be “obeying the gospel” but this does not establish that the gospel is a command, but rather establishes that the truth of the gospel has direct, unavoidable bearing on how we should live our lives as a matter of unavoidable logical consequence.<br /><br />ANONYMOUS: Bearing in mind that it is a command that we would need to obey, hence the definition I provided above.<br /> <br />TETH: The concept of “obedience to the gospel” does not require that the gospel is an explicit command, only that it has unavoidable logical ramifications. At first blush that may seem quite counterintuitive. Consider this example: One might well proclaim the gospel that “exercise is profitable” but this good news is NOT a command. However, if someone believed that truth and conducted themselves in accordance with it by exercising regularly, they could be said to be “obedient to the gospel that exercise is profitable.” This declaration of obedience does not establish that “exercise is profitable” constitutes any form of command. Rather it is stating that true belief of the gospel that “exercise if profitable” is properly attended by living in accordance with its logical ramifications. It is for this reason that I am careful to state that the gospel is a proclamation (not a command), but also to point out that it is accompanied by the assurance of eternal life (John 6:47) as well as the admonition to serve the Lord in obedient discipleship as a matter of reasonable service (John 14:15, Romans 12:1). <br />theearstohearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331127432012852113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-583570562802298522015-01-02T11:42:13.147-06:002015-01-02T11:42:13.147-06:00Just to clarify I do not hold to Lordship Salvatio...Just to clarify I do not hold to Lordship Salvation, or the false notion that to "obey" The gospel is a work that needs to be done by any man prior to believing as if it was a meritorious act.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-47421367019020875172015-01-02T11:40:16.205-06:002015-01-02T11:40:16.205-06:00Thank you for your answer to my question.
However...Thank you for your answer to my question.<br /><br />However I mentioned the passage 1 Peter 4:17 for a reason and do not feel that you engaged with it, or even tried to give an explanation as to why Peter mentions the word "obey" in relation to the Gospel. Bearing in mind that it is a command that we would need to obey, hence the definition I provided above.<br /><br />you wrote ": I do not believe that the gospel "contains a command" as you put it." That is fair enough if you do not believe that, but the scripture I provided (not me or you) clearly states that The gospel does need to be obeyed.<br /><br />Just to clarify I do not hold to Lordship Salvation, or the false notion that to "obey" The gospel is a work that needs to be done by any man.<br /><br />Please can you tackle this passage in your next answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-3226789012263019602015-01-02T09:35:53.679-06:002015-01-02T09:35:53.679-06:00Anonymous,
Thanks for taking time to interact wi...Anonymous,<br /> <br />Thanks for taking time to interact with my blog. You wrote:<br /> <br />ANONYMOUS: I like yourself am not a fan of Lordship Salvation, but you wrote "The gospel is not a command. It is a proclamation of the finished work of Christ" and I agree.<br /><br />TETH: That is correct. The gospel is a good news report which heralds the accomplishment of the Lord Jesus Christ - namely the salvation of his people from their sins (I Corinthians 15:3-4).<br /> <br />ANONYMOUS: The gospel is a proclamation but also that it contains a command which is evidenced by the word obey in [I Peter 4:17].<br /> <br />TETH: I do not believe that the gospel "contains a command" as you put it. The gospel is the good news of the finished work of salvation that has been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ on behalf of his people. This proclamation is true and that truth results in both assurances and ramifications. The gospel assures those who believe this testimony that they HAVE eternal life (John 6:47), and it also admonishes those who believe this testimony to walk in obedience to the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ as their reasonable service to God (Romans 12:1). Neither of these ARE the gospel as defined by Paul in I Corinthians 15:3-4, but are rather the unavoidable logical consequences of gospel truth. This is explained in my short gospel presentation video entitled "What is the Gospel?" (http://theearstohear.blogspot.com/2012/10/what-is-gospel.html)<br /> <br />ANONYMOUS: Of course only the Elect can and will comply with the command to obey The gospel.<br /> <br />TETH: The gospel is the message that God's people WERE MADE RIGHTEOUS by the obedience of one (Romans 5:19) not that they CAN BE MADE RIGHTEOUS by the obedience of two. If man's obedience is a requirement of the gospel in order for man to obtain the gift of eternal life then:<br /> <br />- the gospel is NOT the proclamation of a finished work of eternal salvation<br />- the gospel is NOT the proclamation of righteousness by the obedience of one<br />- Christ did not fulfill ALL of the laws demands on behalf of his people<br />- Eternal salvation is, in some respects, a function of man's works<br /><br />TETH: It is for these reasons that we must be careful to maintain the distinction between gospel truth and gospel ramifications. God's people are eternally saved by the true events and accomplishments heralded in the gospel, that is, by that which Jesus Christ accomplished on their behalf apart from any participation on the part of the sinner whatsoever. THAT is the gospel. However, because these things are true, God's people are to walk in obedient discipleship under the precepts and teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, not in order to obtain eternal salvation because this would be salvation by works (Romans 11:6) and we are taught that our works take NO PART in our eternal salvation (Titus 3:5, II Timothy 1:9, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 9:16), but as a logical consequence of the truth of our extant salvation proclaimed in the gospel (Romans 12:1). <br /> <br />TETH: This distinction may seem subtle, but it is an unavoidable requirement for handling gospel truth established for us by the apostle Paul in Romans 11:6. If we fail to keep the distinction between grace and works in mind when we interpret biblical truth, we run the risk of turning the obedience of one gospel into the obedience of two gospel.<br /> <br />Thanks again for taking the time to interact with my blog and to share your thoughts on the matter of eternal salvation.<br /> <br />May God bless our studies and understanding of his word, <br />teth theearstohearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02331127432012852113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8636101379916124937.post-33108279688976512172015-01-02T06:28:09.325-06:002015-01-02T06:28:09.325-06:00Hello Brother
I like yourself am not a fan of Lor...Hello Brother<br /><br />I like yourself am not a fan of Lordship Salvation, but you wrote "The gospel is not a command. It is a proclamation of the finished work of Christ" and I agree The gospel is a proclamation but also that it contains a command which is evidenced by the word obey in the following passage: <br /><br />For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17<br /><br />o·bey<br />əˈbā,ōˈbā/<br /><br />verb<br />comply with the command, direction, or request of (a person or a law); submit to the authority of.<br />"I always obey my father"<br />synonyms: do what someone says, carry out someone's orders; submit to, defer to, bow to, yield to, give in to<br />carry out (a command or instruction).<br />"the officer was convicted for refusing to obey orders"<br />synonyms: carry out, perform, act on, execute, discharge, implement, fulfill<br />"he refused to obey the order"<br />behave in accordance with (a general principle, natural law, etc.).<br />"the universe was complex but it obeyed certain rules"<br /><br />Of course only the Elect can and will comply with the command to obey The gospel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com