A look at Spurgeon's comments regarding I Timothy 2:4 is revealing. |
I guess it is no secret that I am not a fan of Charles Spurgeon. It is not that Spurgeon didn’t say a lot of wonderful things over the course of his ministry, he most certainly did. Indeed, his ability to turn a phrase is the envy of most who would endeavor to speak publically. It is because a great many of the errors that I see among evangelicals, and especially modern Calvinists, find their headwaters in his ministry.
While many regard him as a bastion of conservatism, I believe it is fair to say that Spurgeon marks the significant but subtle entry of a very liberal notion among God’s people, namely, the idea that God’s revelation to us cannot be logically reconciled, and that we must accept logical inconsistencies, yea, preach them as gospel truth. This mindset opens up a variety of logical problems, all of which do a disservice to our understanding:
- If logic ultimately fails us, how do we know when we are set free from employing logic?
- If some of God’s truth is fundamentally illogical, in what sense can it be a revelation to us?
- If God’s truths are illogical, how do we know that seemingly logical things affirmed in the bible are true?
- Who is the arbiter of when logic is no longer useful in studying the scriptures?
Spurgeon Regarding "All Men" in I Timothy 2:4
A good example of Spurgeon’s illogic is found in his handling of I Timothy 2:4. I believe that taking a moment to examine his take on that passage is helpful in establishing a more sober view of Spurgeon as a theologian.
"It is quite certain that when we read that God will have all men to be saved it does not mean that he wills it with the force of a decree or a divine purpose, for, if he did, then all men would be saved." (Sermon No. 1516, Charles Spurgeon)We should not let his affirmation slip past us, because it will be profitable in assessing Spurgeon’s subsequent analysis of I Timothy 2:4, wherein it is clear that he believes God did “purpose” to save all men, at least in some sense. Here I believe it is important to ask – Is any man ever saved apart from the preceding purpose of God to save him? Clearly not. So let’s be very explicit about this – There are a great many men that God has not purposed to save. Hopefully we’re clear on that. Let’s listen on…
"What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I trow not." (Spurgeon)Well, Spurge, we’ve got to do something with it, because if there are a great many men that God has not purposed to save, and salvation is a monergistic work of God, then if the statement that God “will have all men to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of truth” then you have a bald logical contradiction on your hands.
Spurge Scoffs at "All Men" Meaning "Some Men" Though it OFTEN Does
"You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. 'All men,' say they,—'that is, some men': as if the Holy Ghost could not have said 'some men' if he had meant some men." (Spurgeon)But it is readily evident that “all men” is a phrase that VERY, VERY, VERY frequently does not design all of humanity in the scriptures. This point is not difficult to establish and I will not belabor the case here, but will simply point out three instances which establish this incontrovertible fact beyond any reasonable dispute: Acts 2:45, Acts 4:21, Luke 21:17. In all of these instances it is abundantly clear that “all men” does not design “all of humanity.” Spurgeon asks, “Could not the Holy Spirit have said ‘some men’ if he had meant some men?” To which a biblically well-informed Christian may respond, “All men OFTEN means some men in the word of God.” With this simple, biblical observation Spurgeon’s eloquent irrationalism is vaporized. I’ll stop here to add a cautionary word about Spurgeon. The forcefulness with which he presents his case and the passion and eloquence of his discourse is often sufficient to convince many of the soundness of his line of reasoning. But Spurgeon’s arguments are often found to be threadbare once one looks beneath the cloak of his rhetoric and exposes the ersatz logic underneath.
"'All men,' say they; 'that is, some of all sorts of men': as if the Lord could not have said 'all sorts of men' if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written 'all men,' and unquestionably he means all men." (Spurgeon)Again, this is true enough, but what is also true is that “all men” very, very, very frequently does not mean “all of humanity.” Frankly, Spurgeon’s undeniable intelligence and understanding of language, coupled with his persistence upon making this threadbare point in such a forceful manner, calls his credibility into question on this matter. Stated plainly, Spurgeon is far too smart and far to familiar with the bible to be unaware that “all men” frequently means “some men” in the bible, and therefore it is difficult to exonerate his foolish argument based on ignorance. I’ll just leave it at that…
Spurgeon's Disdain for Grammar and Exposition When it Opposes Him
"I know how to get rid of the force of the 'alls' according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth." (Spurgeon)Here Spurgeon implies that this “critical method” – which is really nothing short of just being diligent about rightly dividing the bible in a way that is not self-contradictory – is really not useful where I Timothy 2:4 is involved.
"I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it." (Spurgeon)Here it appears that Spurgeon is launching out against John Gill, whose theological shoes Spurgeon is not worthy to untie, IMO. But more of note here is the disdain that Spurgeon expresses for “grammar” and “expounding” things. One wonders what manner of logical access we may have to biblical truth apart from a careful attention to “grammar” and “expounding” the meaning of the texts in a way that is non-contradictory. Spurging on…
"I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, 'Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth.' Had such been the inspired language, every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, 'Who will have all men to be saved,' his observations are more than a little out of place." (Spurgeon)In all deft illusions, the magician works trains one’s eye away from the action. In this maneuver, Spurgeon subtly shifts the issue away from the demonstrably false, insistent definition of “all men” and redirects the listener’s attention to the phrase, “Who will have.” The implication is that such men are saying this should be rendered “Who will NOT have.” But this is a crass misrepresentation of the position that seeks to hold up a false rendering that cannot be grammatically supported, as a means of disproving a grammatical argument based on completely different terms, that is both grammatically and systematically sound. It’s a cheap parlor trick aimed at the minds of the naïve who lack the capacity to follow this bait and switch. It would be comical were it not for the great many professing Calvinists who remain so blinded by Spurgeon’s status as the “Prince of Preachers” that they are completely duped by Spurgeon’s shell game. Again, I’ll point out that Spurgeon is entirely too brilliant to be unaware of the dodgy nature of his rhetoric.
Consistency and Orthodoxy Set at Odds
"My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God." (Spurgeon)This statement is quoted a great deal among modern Calvinists, but it is very problematic. Given that Spurgeon believes himself to be teaching the unadulterated truth of the word of God, it is evident that any inconsistency that he deferentially absorb is likewise chargeable against the word of God as well. Let’s keep listening…
"I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself; for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture." (Spurgeon)What lurks in this statement is the admission that to be consistent with the teaching of the word of God, one must be logically inconsistent in the theology they preach. Plainly stated, Spurgeon opens up the Pandora’s box of paradox theology with this statement, and in so doing has influenced a great many theologians and preachers to resist the urge to logically reconcile doctrinal inconsistencies and simply embrace contradictions as truth. This singular poisonous precept has done a great deal of damage to the theological progress of many by teaching them that right division is only possible in some instances, but in others we must simply accept that truth is contradictory. That is a serious and cancerous error that continues to plague a great many in Christendom today.
Spurgeon Basks in His Glorious Contradiction
"God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, 'God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.'" (Spurgeon)Ok Spurgeon, but that illogical approach to scripture would insist that Jesus Christ was, “the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” (I John 2:2), and that this utterly universal language and applies to all of humanity; while also insisting that a great many in the world will end up in hell nonetheless. (Matthew 25:41) Propitiation is the satisfaction of divine wrath. The moment one affirms universal propitiation, one has likewise undermined the possibility of anyone remaining under the abiding wrath of God in hell. Apart from the proper contextual qualifications on such biblical statements achieved through right division (II Timothy 2:15, i.e., grammar and exposition) the bible is reduced to a self-contradictory heap mystical nonsense.
Hard as it may be for some to accept, the simple fact of the matter is that we are never told to understand the word of God via the plain meaning method of interpretation – we are told to rightly divide the word of truth (II Timothy 2:15) and that requires study and logical reconciliation of statements both line upon line (exegetically) and precept upon precept (systematically). Failure to do so leads to numerous interpretive errors in the bible, because what appears to be the plain meaning of a text is often NOT the rightly divided interpretation. (Malachi 4:5, Matthew 11).
"Does not the text mean that it is the wish of God that men should be saved?" (Spurgeon)Spurgeon goes on to continue his illusion through a discourse regarding the word “wish” – but this is just a continuation of the previous sleight of hand. I am not aware of ANY theologian who bases an argument against the plain meaning interpretation of I Timothy 2:4 based on the meaning of “will” or by extension “wish.” It is based upon what is meant by “all men” and there is manifold evidence that the Holy Spirit of God OFTEN used this phrase in a way that designs less than all of humanity.
FINALLY
Hopefully this analysis is sufficient to cause those who idolize Spurgeon as the gold standard of right division to reconsider that opinion. He was a great orator, he even preached a lot of things that are true, but he was very unstable on a number of theological topics. Many of Spurgeon’s theological positions and the arguments he uses to set them forth, are completely illogical and without merit. That so many today quote him as though he is the final word on theological truth says as much about our penchant for evangelical hero-worship as it does about our inability to logically interact with the ideas set forth by such men.
You obviously have studied Spurgeon very much. He teaches predestination and election. That is his main teaching. He meant that Jesus Christ is not a beggar, He is a King. If God gave Him everybody to save then everybody would be saved but that's not the case. He came for His sheep who God gave him only. We are saved by Grace thru our God given faith. All glory to Jesus Christ.
ReplyDeleteThanks for taking a moment to interact with my blog. My thoughts follow…
DeleteUNKNOWN: You obviously have studied Spurgeon very much.
TETH: I’ve read a fair amount of his writings and sermons.
UNKNOWN: He teaches predestination and election. That is his main teaching.
TETH: He definitely taught election and predestination and on those points I am largely in agreement with what I have read from him. The issue with Spurgeon crops in other areas, like the nature and purpose of the gospel message, that end up contradicting his good affirmations related to election and predestination.
UNKNOWN: He meant that Jesus Christ is not a beggar, He is a King.
TETH: I don’t disagree with that sentiment. But Spurgeon also believed that the gospel was sincerely offering eternal salvation to all of humanity. If election and predestination are true (and they certainly are) then this take on the nature of the gospel is a contradiction. THAT contradiction is one of Spurgeon’s main errors and it has been liberally promoted among Christians, even election and predestination believing Christians, ever since.
UNKNOWN: If God gave Him everybody to save then everybody would be saved but that's not the case.
TETH: I agree.
UNKNOWN: He came for His sheep who God gave him only.
TETH: That is precisely correct. And because that is correct it is also likewise true that Jesus Christ is NOT extending well-meant (sincere) offers of eternal life to those that God the Father did not give him. You see, if what you say about the chosen sheep being given to Christ to save is true (and it certainly is – John 10:28-29), then the gospel CANNOT be a well-meant offer of salvation to all of humanity.
UNKNOWN: We are saved by Grace thru our God given faith. All glory to Jesus Christ.
TETH: We are saved by the shed blood of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9) which was freely (without a cause) given to us by His grace (Romans 3:24). Our faith is an ex post facto evidence of that saving transaction (Hebrews 11:1, Galatians 5:22). So when the bible says we’re “saved by faith” it does not intend “You exercised faith and because of that you were saved” but rather “Your exercise of faith is the evidence of things not seen in your life, namely your preceding salvation by the shed blood of Jesus Christ and the Spirit’s quickening grace whereby you were given the capacity of faith in regeneration.”
God bless,
TETH
Spurgeon is correct in what he says. He was fighting hyper calvanists of his day...Gill being one of those. It's the two parallel lines that don't meet till heaven. God's revealed will and secret will. MacArthur has several sermons on this. John Calvin himself in his comentary on Ezekiel 18 goes into these things. Also, his commentary on Acts 2:21 Calvin says, "We must also note the universal word, whosoever For God admitteth all men unto himself without exception, and by this means doth he invite them to salvation, as Paul gathereth in the tenth chapter to the Romans, and as the prophet had set it down before,
ReplyDelete“Thou, Lord, which hearest the prayer,
unto thee shall all flesh come,”
(Ps 65:2.)
Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel."
Martyn Lloyd's sermon on Hyper Calvanism and Arminianism might help you. I just got out of a hyper calvanistic church.
TETH ANSWER 101
ReplyDeleteANONYMOUS: Spurgeon is correct in what he says.
TETH: His argument is demonstrably contradictory. Simply saying “Spurgeon was right” does not address any of the issues that his position raises.
ANONYMOUS: He was fighting hyper calvanists of his day...Gill being one of those.
TETH: He was, in many respects, fighting a phantom – the boogey man of “Hyper-Calvinism.” While there were some hypers who erred in that they almost refused to share the gospel without some prior proof of regeneration, nevertheless the core principle which many so-called hypers like Gill sought to support was correct. There is no sincere offer of eternal salvation to the non-elect, indeed there cannot be. Simply put, if Christ did not die for someone (as the doctrine of limited atonement establishes) then there is no atoning basis for the offer. Thus, the gospel IS NOT a well-meant (sincere) offer of eternal life to all of humanity. It is the declaration of the finished work of Christ on behalf of his covenant people.
ANONYMOUS: It's the two parallel lines that don't meet till heaven.
TETH: Hypo-Calvinists love to quote this clever rhetorical device to lend credence to an evidently illogical position that contradicts their own doctrine. Indeed, the Lord said to a group of hostile, unregenerate Pharisees, “Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matthew 23:33). There was no sincere or well-meant offer of salvation extended to these men. That’s because their salvation was an impossibility since they were outside the intercessory ministry of Christ (i.e., Limited Atonement / Particular Redemption). At the end of the day, you must contend with this unavoidable question: How can God extend a sincere offer of salvation to a man he did not purpose to save, His Spirit did not covenant to regenerate, and His Son did not come to die? That question is the complete undoing of well-meant-offer Calminianism and proves that Gill’s take on the matter was FAR more sound than what Spurgeon promoted.
ANONYMOUS: God's revealed will and secret will. MacArthur has several sermons on this. John Calvin himself in his commentary on Ezekiel 18 goes into these things. Also, his commentary on Acts 2:21 Calvin says, "We must also note the universal word, whosoever For God admitteth all men unto himself without exception,
TETH: Truth be told, Calvin and MacArthur are both equally unstable and illogical on this very point – embracing the same error as Spurgeon. It’s a have your cake and eat it too take on the atonement that cannot be logically reconciled, whether here on earth or before the throne of God in heaven. When closely examined, their ersatz “monergistic salvation” relies on the sinner doing something to obtain salvation (“both/andism if you will) rather than fully embracing that God does ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING required for the salvation of his people, and all you ever see in them is a pale reflection of the glory this is yet to be revealed in them. By that time that sincere evidence, no matter how meager, is observed, such a person has ALREADY PASSED from death unto life and thus his actions were never participatory in how he obtained that life. To suggest that eternal salvation is by the sovereignty of God AND YET man is also responsible as these men do is an evidently contradictory position, that does violence to language and destroys the concept of monergism.
TETH ANSWER 102
ReplyDeleteANONYMOUS: and by this means doth he invite them to salvation, as Paul gathereth in the tenth chapter to the Romans, and as the prophet had set it down before, “Thou, Lord, which hearest the prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come,” (Ps 65:2.)
TETH: Consider this: What manner of man can pray to God in sincerity? One who has the indwelling Holy Spirit of God and faith (i.e., a regenerate man) or one who has only the desperately wicked heart of Jeremiah 17:9 (i.e., an unregenerate man)? A sober answer to that question reveals that the only people who ever pray to God are ALREADY BORN AGAIN and thus ALREADY IN POSSESSION OF ETERNAL LIFE. The Lord taught, “out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.” (Matthew 12:34) Whatever else might be said, the heart of an unregenerate man cannot produce the expression of sincere desire for God or salvation. Indeed, his carnal mind is enmity against God (Romans 8:7).
ANONYMOUS: Therefore, forasmuch as no man is excluded from calling upon God,
TETH: The unregenerate are excluded by that very verse. They have no faith and thus the cannot pray in sincerity. Thus this verse is not talking about them and it most certainly excludes them from consideration. That is a fundamental application of the doctrine of total depravity. Consider this – how can an totally depraved man pray to God in sincerity when the pride of his countenance will not permit him to seek after God, who is likewise not in all his thoughts? (Psalm 10:4) A correct answer to that question, establishes the point beyond any reasonable dispute.
ANONYMOUS: the gate of salvation is set open unto all men; neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. I speak of all unto whom God doth make himself manifest by the gospel."
TETH: Nope. There is no hope of eternal salvation for those outside the LIMITED ATONEMENT of the Lord Jesus Christ.
ANONYMOUS: Martyn Lloyd's sermon on Hyper Calvanism and Arminianism might help you. I just got out of a hyper calvanistic church.
TETH: I’ve read innumerable works on Hyper-Calvinism. All of them are incapable of resolving the logical dilemma. They throw up their hands and say, “God will resolve it later.” But I say with all sincerity that God himself cannot SINCERELY offer eternal life to a man he never purposed to save. That is an indisputable fact. One that I believe you should give greater consideration.
May God bless our studies and understanding of His word.
Sir, you are a hyper calvanistic man. You must be a member in the same affiliation I was in. To be honest I was NOT saved. I have been trained in the likes of what all you say for DECADES. It's a sad blind state. I could give you all the opposite texts to refute you but it would be a waste of time. If you are against Calvin shouldn't that prove you are hyper? Christ prayed for all those at the cross He was crucified on "Lord forgive them they know not what they do". They were not all saved but prayed for all of them that were crucifying Him. You will bunk that by saying"Christ prayed for only His elect that had to be saved yet... eventhough they were predestined". I could give you the text about Stephan when being stoned but you would say, "That was for Paul's salvation". I could point you to Ezekiel 18 but you would say "that's for Isreal."
ReplyDeleteYour pride will continue to blind you until you are broken on the Rock Jesus Christ.
You are not suppose to understand God fully. Deuteronomy 29:29.
TETH ANSWER 201
DeleteANONYMOUS: Sir, you are a hyper calvanistic man.
TETH: That term gets thrown around as often as it gets misspelled. Depending on how you define the term, I may well be an Hyper-Calvinist. If by that term you mean someone who does not believe that the gospel is a sincere offer of eternal life to all of humanity, then you are absolutely correct. The simple fact of the matter is that God cannot sincerely offer salvation to the non-elect because he has NEVER purposed to save them. It’s really just as simple as that.
ANONYMOUS: You must be a member in the same affiliation I was in.
TETH: Those who believe that the gospel is not a well-meant offer do not all belong to one group. There are Baptists, Protestant Reformed, Presbyterians, and others who hold this position, and rightly so.
ANONYMOUS: To be honest I was NOT saved.
TETH: Oye.
ANONYMOUS: I have been trained in the likes of what all you say for DECADES. It's a sad blind state. I could give you all the opposite texts to refute you but it would be a waste of time.
TETH: I’ve heard them all before and have written at great length refuting why those texts DO NOT teach the well-meant offer. I would recommend you read that carefully.
https://theearstohear.blogspot.com/2012/10/book-review-01-john-murray-free-offer.html
ANONYMOUS: If you are against Calvin shouldn't that prove you are hyper?
TETH: There are many laudable things that Calvin taught, but I am totally against his biblically inconsistent well-meant offerism. I do not regard Calvin as a gold-standard for bible exposition. He had his issues and his inconsistency in handling the atonement and the nature and purpose of the gospel is where they show up.
ANONYMOUS: Christ prayed for all those at the cross He was crucified on "Lord forgive them they know not what they do".
TETH: That’s not a prayer for all of humanity.
ANONYMOUS: They were not all saved but prayed for all of them that were crucifying Him.
TETH: Wait, Jesus prayed that God the Father should forgive men and those men were not eternally saved? Think about that for a moment. If Christ’s prayer went unanswered then he prayed something that was outside the will of God. I believe that matter warrants a great deal more consideration on your part, because you’ve opened an enormous can of worms with that statement.
TETH ANSWER 202
DeleteANONYMOUS: You will bunk that by saying, "Christ prayed for only His elect that had to be saved yet... even though they were predestined.”
TETH: I would say that all those Christ had in mind in that prayer to be forgiven, were certainly forgiven, else Christ’s prayer was at variance with his Father’s will.
ANONYMOUS: I could give you the text about Stephan when being stoned but you would say, "That was for Paul's salvation".
TETH: Were the people Stephen had in mind forgiven or was Stephen’s prayer outside the will of God?
ANONYMOUS: I could point you to Ezekiel 18 but you would say "that's for Isreal."
TETH: Ezekiel himself says that Ezekiel 18 is about Israel: “The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb CONCERNING THE LAND OF ISRAEL, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?” (Ezekiel 18:1-2) I agree with Ezekiel.
ANONYMOUS: Your pride will continue to blind you until you are broken on the Rock Jesus Christ.
TETH: If I had a nickel for the number of times I’ve had a Hypo-Calvinist try to spackle over their illogical and unscriptural theology with some accusation of needing to be broken or some similar thing, I’d buy you a steak dinner. It all comes down to a simple question that the modern well-meant-offer Calvinist cannot resolve: How can God sincerely offer eternal salvation to a man he has not purpose to save? That question is avoided like the plague by those in the well-meant-offer camp because it is the complete undoing of their theology. I’m willing to listen to your answer, but you’ll have to set one forth rather than issuing broadsides implying that I am outside the saving grace of God.
ANONYMOUS: You are not suppose to understand God fully. Deuteronomy 29:29.
DS: I’ve never claimed to understand God fully. What I’ve stated is that particular redemption is true. That the logical consequence is that God did not purpose to save all of humanity. Simply put: If Christ did not die for all of humanity (and he didn’t – John 10:11,26) then salvation is utterly impossible for the non-elect could. Thus any offer of salvation extended to them in the gospel is INSINCERE, because God knows full well that their salvation is NOT POSSIBLE, having no atoning basis. You can turn a blind eye to that, and you’ll find many who will comfort you in that position, but that does not make the dilemma go away. To be an ambassador for the King one must properly represent the King’s edict.
https://theearstohear.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-kings-edict.html
May God bless our studies and understanding of His word,
TETH
After listening to some of your videos, I felt compelled to write you. Again, I am not going to argue with you on the parallel lines because I see a far greater problem. You are a stiff-necked man and full of pride. I say that because I struggle with what you are and how you present yourself. Even apart from your views on scriptures, you come off so wickedly prideful. You can't take corrective criticism but sure can dish it out as if you are "god." A true believer will humbly pray to God to search the heart as it is deceitful above all (I'm talking about the pride you radiate in your replies and in your videos). As far as salvation, I was fully "assured" of my salvation. I was NOT saved. I can't see your heart, but you best question your faith. When you lie on your bed this night, pray over what I have said. I recommend studying the way Christ treated people. He comes with authoritative love and is blunt to religious prideful Pharisees and saducees. You read how He deals with the poor and lost. It’s never with pride. Never with pride with anyone. He hates pride. He is who we are to emulate. We can say all these things, but if it's without love, it means nothing to Him. I would not waste my time if I didn't have a loving concern for you. If you are like I was, you will have an arrogant reply, and you will not look in through much prayer and Scripture reading. You will believe that in writing this that I'm the prideful one. No doubt I'm not without that bastardly sin. Pride is such an accursed thing. It puts blinders to our deceptive hearts. We both agree that it is only God that can unblind us to this plague. As much as you may not like Spurgeon, he has a sermon on The Meek and Lowly One. If you stick only to hyper men, jc philpot has a fantastic sermon on pride. I'm praying for you. Please pray for me, too, with the sin of pride. If you happen to live i,n grand rapids maybe you and I should have Saturday morning coffees studying and praying together over our prideful hearts.
ReplyDeleteIn Christian love,
Neo Calvanist
Proverbs 11:2 - When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
Proverbs 16:5 - Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
Proverbs 29:23 - A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
Proverbs 16:18 - Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Galatians 6:3 - For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
James 4:6 - But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Proverbs 27:2 - Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips.
Proverbs 26:12 - Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
Philippians 2:3 - Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Proverbs 8:13 - The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Jeremiah 9:23 - Thus saith the LORD, Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, neither let the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches:
1 John 2:16 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Romans 12:16 - Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
TETH ANSWER 301
DeleteANONYMOUS: After listening to some of your videos, I felt compelled to write you. Again, I am not going to argue with you on the parallel lines because I see a far greater problem.
TETH: This is the consistent reaction that I get from well-meant-offer Calvinists. No one will engage with the one question I’ve asked. It seems apparent that this question is consistently avoided because it demonstrates the irrationalism embedded in the core of their theological system. Instead, time and again they resort to accusations of pride, arrogance, etc., simply because I have a dispassionate and well-reasoned take on the implications that arise of necessity from the agreed upon doctrine of limited atonement (particular redemption). I’ll give you another opportunity to engage on that front: consider the following…
1. If Christ died for the elect only, then some men have no atonement on their behalf.
2. If the atonement of Christ is the only basis for the eternal salvation of man, then the eternal salvation of some men is an impossibility.
3. It follows that to offer eternal life to the non-elect on the basis of Christ’s atoning work, which admittedly does not cover them, is a misrepresentation of the nature and purpose of the gospel.
TETH: That is irrefutable. It is the complete undoing of the well-meant-offer Calvinism so popular in our day, provided you take a moment to give it due consideration. One must either accept this correction, and admit that the gospel is the declaration of the finished work of Christ on behalf of his people, or admit that their soteriology is irrational because it has an enormous logical contradiction sitting right in its center. It seems that this is where most modern Calvinists have decided to set up camp. It is precisely why I have referred to their system as a form of “Christian Irrationalism.”
ANONYMOUS: You are a stiff-necked man and full of pride.
TETH: Here we go. So, because someone has well-reasoned, clearly articulated, and biblically supported opposition to your irrationalism they are therefore “stiff-necked” and “full of pride.” You’re entitled to that opinion, but your refusal to engage on ONE QUESTION that dismantles your position opens you up to the same accusation. I’m not making that accusation of you. I’m simply saying that it would not be unreasonable for someone to come to that conclusion given your avoidance of that issue.
ANONYMOUS: I say that because I struggle with what you are and how you present yourself. Even apart from your views on scriptures, you come off so wickedly prideful.
TETH: I’ve taken care to present my position with dispassionate transparency with the scriptural reasons why I believe it is sound. As such I’m very comfortable with the way I have set forth my position. You may regard it as “wickedly prideful” if you so desire. However, the best way to demonstrate the folly of my position would be for you to provide a sober answer to the vexing question I’ve raised, rather than peppering me with railing accusations.
ANONYMOUS: You can't take corrective criticism but sure can dish it out as if you are "god."
TETH: Ironically, give that I have not always held my current beliefs, the fact that I hold this position today is proof positive that I can and have taken corrective criticism in the past. It was the corrective criticism of others that was instrumental in bringing me along the path to a better understanding of the nature and purpose of the gospel message and the Lord’s New Testament church. What’s more, I’ve laid no claim to being a “god.” I just firmly believe that the well-meant-offer and particular redemption are mutually exclusive both logically and biblically. I’d love to hear your reconciliation of the two that does not invoke irrationalism. If you could provide that, perhaps you might win me back over to the Neo-Calvinist camp.
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DeleteANONYMOUS: A true believer will humbly pray to God to search the heart as it is deceitful above all (I'm talking about the pride you radiate in your replies and in your videos).
TETH: Here we go with the “no true Scotsman” fallacy so popular among rabid Lordship salvationists. What you regard as “pride” in my videos is just a level-headed, rational explanation of the word of God that puts your understanding of the nature of the gospel message in a bind. That tension you feel is not the result of any pride on my part. It is the result of your inability to first admit, “That’s a really good point,” followed by, “Do I have an answer for that?” followed by, “Does John MacArthur or Spurgeon have an answer for that?” followed by, “Wow, no one has an answer for that” followed by, “I might be wrong about that.” I’m willing to listen to your answers – but just sweeping it away with fiat irrationalism and quoting Deuteronomy 29:29 does not answer the question. Rather it affirms that you don’t have an answer and that is precisely my point. If you want to admit that the Christian gospel is fundamentally irrational, you’re at liberty to do so. I’m simply pointing out that this compromise is unnecessary and that there is a way to rightly divide the word of truth, albeit one that is not terribly popular and one that will force you to leave some long-held, falsely-held beliefs behind.
ANONYMOUS: As far as salvation, I was fully "assured" of my salvation. I was NOT saved.
TETH: To be clear, I do not and have not questioned your eternal salvation. I have questioned your understanding of the nature and purpose of the gospel.
ANONYMOUS: I can't see your heart, but you best question your faith. When you lie on your bed this night, pray over what I have said. I recommend studying the way Christ treated people. He comes with authoritative love and is blunt to religious prideful Pharisees and saducees.
TETH: Here is another problem with modern Calvinism. It insists that man is totally depraved (which he is) but suggests that an unregenerate man had better question his faith, pray, and study lest he go to hell. Essentially sinner’s prayer salvation. This is another evident contradiction. If a man is unregenerate, he has no faith and is utterly incapable of doing anything to acquire eternal salvation. That’s depravity in its fullness. Your response reveals some latent Arminianism lurking in your Calvinism. This is why it has been correctly referred to as Calminianism by theologians.
ANONYMOUS: You read how He deals with the poor and lost. It’s never with pride. Never with pride with anyone. He hates pride. He is who we are to emulate. We can say all these things, but if it's without love, it means nothing to Him. I would not waste my time if I didn't have a loving concern for you.
TETH: I appreciate your love, but it is possible to be sincerely wrong about something. What’s more it is also possible to use “love” as a cover for “irrationalism” and accusations of “pride” as a way of dodging important, theology shaping questions. I offer that for your sincere consideration.
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DeleteANONYMOUS: If you are like I was, you will have an arrogant reply, and you will not look in through much prayer and Scripture reading. You will believe that in writing this that I'm the prideful one. No doubt I'm not without that bastardly sin. Pride is such an accursed thing. It puts blinders to our deceptive hearts.
TETH: Pride is a sin that will dog each of us to our dying day. That said, if you were an outside observer, which is more prideful? Asking a sincere but vexing question regarding someone’s theological position? Or refusing to address that question? I’m willing to listen and discuss if you’re willing to answer.
ANONYMOUS: We both agree that it is only God that can unblind us to this plague. As much as you may not like Spurgeon, he has a sermon on The Meek and Lowly One. If you stick only to hyper men, jc philpot has a fantastic sermon on pride. I'm praying for you. Please pray for me, too, with the sin of pride.
TETH: Spurgeon said a lot of good things, but those who raise him up as some gold-standard for biblical truth are not wise. Spurgeon introduced many aspects of paradox-theology / Christian-Irrationalism among the Calvinists in his day, further destabilizing their theological system. Spurgeon was a mixed bag and I’ve documented some of the reasons why on my blog as you have seen.
ANONYMOUS: If you happen to live i,n grand rapids maybe you and I should have Saturday morning coffees studying and praying together over our prideful hearts.
TETH: I don’t live near there but appreciate the invite. I suspect that you and I would find much to agree upon in other areas. What’s more, I suspect that give some time you might come to travel the same path I did to arrive at my current Primitive Baptist convictions. I too resisted, was frustrated by an inability to reconcile the “antinomies” of the Neo-Cal system, tried to stiff-arm the opposition, but ultimately came to realize that the way of humility was found in letting go of some very popular notions promoted among the Neo-Cals and accepting the full ramifications of election and limited atonement.
May God bless our studies and understanding of his word,
TETH
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DeleteI'm happy to continue our discussion here, but if you'd like to discuss via email you can reach me at theearstohear@me.com.
God bless,
TETH